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Letters to the Editor
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by The Presbyterian Outlook
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Tuesday, 30 June 2009 16:53 |
I have three counter-points to your article:
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by Dick Lindsey
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Tuesday, 30 June 2009 16:47 |
I appreciated very much Thomas Wilson's article … which suggested that it is high time that clergy in the United States cease and desist from having any role in civil marriage contracts.
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Was it my imagination? Or was there something fitting about Derek Maul's refreshing commentary ("It's time we listened to atheists," June 29) being placed on the very last page of the Outlook? For here is a journal, a fine one with a distinguished history, caught increasingly in the centripetal winds of a denomination in numerical decline — a Christian family focused more and more on its own troubles and tiffs. Maul's savvy, theologically astute and outward-looking piece enters this culture as a meteor from Mars, as a shock to the system.
This is how prophecy feels, isn't it?
Wayne G. Boulton
Boston, Mass.
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by Gordon Garlington
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Tuesday, 23 June 2009 18:26 |
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The Calvinistic conception of individual election or choice by God differs from that general or national election by which God chose the whole nation of Israel to be his own people. |
The center spread by David Gushee is an abomination! To assign all opposing views to hell (after all they can't be Christians!) is as divisive as anything ever written in your magazine. And to do it all in the name of a prayer to "Dear Jesus" is way over the line. It has to rank at the top of the worst articles ever to appear in OUTLOOK!
David Castrodale
Keokuk, Iowa
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Professor David Gushee’s (article) sounded to me like a clarion call for a new confession for the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) — parallel to the Barmen Declaration of 1934. As a church with peacemaking one of its central mission priorities, Professor Gushee’s Lament speaks the truth to the powerlessness, or is it “spinelessness,” of our members and leaders in a time when our democratic principles are being eroded in the name of national security.
As a pastor of a small church near a state capitol, I have tried to raise the morality of torture in various venues of the life of our church. After three churches in nearby Boise put up banners against torture to witness to this travesty, I took the various General Assembly statements on torture, the United Nations statements on torture, and the position of various interfaith groups opposing torture to my Session, and asked if we could make a similar witness against torture by hanging a banner on our church. We had a good discussion about the whole issue, but after an hour of grappling with the various aspects of what this would mean for our church, the Session voted against hanging a banner against torture on the exterior of the church.
The fear was that our church would become an object for potential hate crimes by those who believe otherwise. I suggested that making a witness against torture would make a strong witness to God’s power against those who choose torture and hate for whatever reason. If our church was attacked for making such a witness, we would not be able to continue to witness for God and for good in our community. While I understood the fears and concerns of the Session, I was deeply disappointed that we did not have the courage to stand against this wrong and witness to what is right. I believe this is what that Great End of the Church calling for the “preservation of the truth” demands of us.
I know many of my colleagues have struggled with how we can witness the truth in a time when it is “politically incorrect” to oppose anything that seems to weaken our “National Security.” We know that our national security is in God’s hands, but we have not gotten that truth into the minds and hearts of Americans. Preachers cannot do it all — but we can be leaders, instead of cowering sheep. Our congregants must be missionaries in a country that is hungry for the Truth, and sick of being fed the lies of fear. Must we make a new creedal statement, or can we get our voice and speak the Truth to the fear mongers and perpetrators of torture, violence and terror? Wherever two or three are gathered in Christ’s name, we can take our stand, and after reading Professor Gushee’s Lament I am ready to try once again.
Elizabeth D. “Betty” Beck, pastor
First Church
Emmett, Ida.
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I find the statement by Dr. Gushee “let them be anathema” an ironic response. To believe we are something other than broken is “to delude ourselves on the way to Judgment Day.” The “status confessionis moment” is not so much a stand on the torture question but rather whether we can as the people of God condemn a sin and not the sinner. Isn’t that what it means to be “really” the people of God? “There are some things that we just can’t do to anyone, no matter who they are?”
Baron Eliason
Lubbock, Texas |
An OUTSTANDING selection on the part of Columbia! Steve Hayner has left an indelible mark on the lives of hundreds of Christians and I include myself. He will provide leadership that will make Columbia the leader in missional theology among the Presbyterian seminaries and influence the emerging shape of theological education across North America.
John Zimmerman
Blaine, Wash.
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by John M. Noah
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Tuesday, 09 June 2009 19:49 |
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In reading Jack Haberer’s editorial … I was struck by the easy assumption that progressives make concerning “Red Letter Christians” as the new evangelicals. |
“If current trends continue, Islam will become the most popular world religion sometime in the mid-21st century,” according to Theology Matters, Vol. 14, No. 1, Jan./Feb. 2008. Our great-granddaughters may become one of up to four wives in a Muslim household. Children of that home could be indoctrinated into attaining glory and Paradise as suicide bombers.
This could happen as Muslims continue to abhor our hedonistic and sexually-preoccupied society. For example, little in our society disgusts them more than homosexual behavior. …
We are doomed unless the Muslim world comes to Christ. This requires exactly what Christ said — to be radically transformed from our original sinful, self-indulgent nature (required by infants to survive), and reborn to living effectively in Christ with his love, peace, and joy clearly demonstrated in all we do in all places and at all times.
Ronald S. Seaton, M.D. Penney Farms, Fla.
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Like Jefferson Hatch … I too am tired:
I am tired of “his side” attempting year after year to ram down our throats his “pro gay” agenda despite the fact that overall, church has consistently rejected it. I am tired of his side’s attempt to rationalize, homogenize, and paralyze God’ Word! I am tired of their non theological, non biblical non sense!
Hatch suggested that those of us who oppose this radical agenda “go.” I say, “No, Mr. Hatch I am not going, and since you have already admitted you are ashamed of your church, perhaps it is you that should ‘go!’”
After all this is my church too!
It is the church of the great Westminster Confession.
It is NOT a “sinking ship” as some on my side have claimed. However as I see it, she is a ship that desperately needs some refurbishment.
I plan to be there when the time comes to “scrape the bow and give her a new coat of paint. …”
John K. Wilson, pastor
First Church
Kamrar, Iowa
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by Raymond Guterman
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Thursday, 21 May 2009 17:09 |
I agree with the letter printed in your June 1 edition regarding the need to get some very creative, outside-of-the-box thinkers from both sides of this debate to get together and prayerfully seek to come up with a better way than General Assemblies that tend to be more "progressive" sending out amendments to a majority of Presbyterians in pulpits and pews which in four votes tend to be more traditional in Biblical interpretation.
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How proud am I to be a Presbyterian? Depends on the day. But Winfield Casey Jones certainly gets it right that our tradition itself happily has never been silent on the question.
There are Presbyterian distinctives, of course. But there is something deep inside us that works better when we don't emphasize them. As Casey says, this is particularly true in times like these for the PC(USA), which has been losing members by the truckload for over 40 years - all my adult life. …
The editorial "Sinfully proud" got this discussion going, and Outlook Editor Jack Haberer brings to it (and to his fine work at the journal) the passion of a convert. He sees our family as a new member can and should. As Calvin's 500th birthday arrives in two months, all of us have new opportunities this year to resume our acquaintance with a too-often forgotten treasure that is the Reformed tradition. The question before us, I think, isn't so much one of degree as of kind. How does our tradition guide the expression of pride and enthusiasm about the tradition itself? …
So does the Reformed tradition permit us to be "sinfully proud" of it? Sure. We might even be encouraged to do it boldly. But the best way to do it, I think, is Casey's way — never be completely at ease with the practice. For if any single insight expresses Calvin's genius, it may be this: that tribalism in all its forms, beginning with our own, is the great and permanent enemy of the Christian church. It is so because of its established tendency to block the three elements Casey enumerates in his note: the sovereignty of God, the supremacy of Christ, and open partnerships with Christians who do things differently than we do.
I love our tradition. And this could be Reason #1.
Wayne G. Boulton
Boston, Mass.
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As a female minister in her first call to a rural congregation (the nearest large city is 2.5 hours away), where I am their first female pastor, I feel qualified to comment.
With regard to the "first-call shortage," I believe it would help to amend the PIF and CIF to include the additional category of "First-call/Second Career." Those 174 churches unwilling to consider a first-call candidate may actually be uncertain about calling a very young, inexperienced candidate. Nearly half my seminary (classmates) were second-career candidates who had been bankers, financial planners, social workers, attorneys, judges, pharmacists, corporate executives … with advanced degrees. Several of us had been elders for 25 years or more and two of us had already served as CLPs. It is wrong-headed to exclude such exceptional candidates simply because a PNC decides to use this arbitrary limit. …
With regard to the 93% of candidates unwilling to serve in a rural area, or who restrict their search to "one or two particular states," my husband and I decided at the outset of our search that we would put no limits on God's call. We had phone interviews with churches from coast-to-coast, both urban and rural, and interviewed in three states before accepting a call to a rural, county seat congregation with more than 130 members. We left our home of 30 years in a major city, brought my 95-year-old mother along, and are having the adventure of our lives in the midst of a welcoming and vibrant church community.
I don't believe we are "exceptions to the rule." I think God will honor both churches and candidates who are willing to remove false limits and let God initiate their calls.
Deborah Hollifield, pastor
First Church
Guymon, Okla.
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I want to second the … letter of my friend James Kim about the primacy of qualifications for General Assembly commissioners beyond race, gender, age, and disabilities. I would even extend his argument to include those elected to any church office. My experience as an elder, presbytery committee member and chair, presbytery moderator, and General Assembly commissioner repeatedly draws me to Acts 19:32. The verse lies in the middle of the story of the riot at Ephesus. The assembly was in confusion: Some were shouting one thing, some another. Most of the people didn’t even know why they were there. This verse rang even louder after I actually stood in the giant amphitheater where the riot took place. The top qualification for church office should be matching God-given skills to particular places of service. This is why nominating committees at any level play such a key role in our Presbyterian polity if it is to work as intended. If more elected officers were in place through a sense of call by God to use their particular skills, I believe there would be less shouting, and more work would be accomplished for the kingdom. Why? Because most would know in their hearts and minds why they are there.
Randy Preddy
Waco, Texas
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My recommendation to the Special Committee to Study Issues of Civil Unions and Christian Marriage is to draw a sharp distinction between what is essentially a civil partnership agreement between two people and a blessed covenant of Holy Matrimony between husband and wife, instituted by God. As such, civil unions have no standing in the church. They are simply an accommodation to our present culture.
The five issues to be studied by the committee clearly reveal a bias toward the progressive/liberal point of view, especially the last one: “the place of covenanted same-gender partnerships in the Christian community.” The committee should start with Scripture, the Word of God, and accept the tenet that homosexual practice is a sin, an unnatural affection, and not part of God’s plan for humankind.
Amendment 08-B was just defeated. It would have replaced the “fidelity in marriage or chastity in singleness” language in the Book of Order. The committee should recognize that the majority of Presbyterians oppose same sex relationships in our officers, and I daresay, among our members. Many wish GLBT advocates would either repent of their sinful lifestyles and be transformed by the renewing of their spirits in Christ Jesus, or go away.
Bob Battenfield
La Mesa, Calif.
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In response to comments on the potential for greater flexibility under the nFOG, I think it is a specious argument. As interim pastor, serving on average about two years per assignment, I have seen over 15 years considerable flexibility in eight congregations. In one city with two Presbyterian congregations, I was orienting the officers on issues as part of their review of our polity. After a quick summary of the Form of Government, several of those informed leaders asked, "How can [that other congregation] be Presbyterian?!" They claimed it couldn't be, considering how different it was to theirs. Both congregations were mission oriented and mission minded, but neither could be considered missional, in the sense that many are using the latter term.
Regarding the number of words pointed out by Dan Williams (Outlook letter, April 20), my guess is that unless there is a considerable shift in our core culture, we won't be happy with an abbreviated FOG. We seem to be happiest when we are fixing problems through the amendment processes, so we can expect nFog to grow fatter just as the current FOG has.
Harris Schultz, H. R.
Antioch, Tenn.
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… Everyone can see quite clearly that the mainline is not only receding but probably disappearing. That is, indeed, part of the problem. But the proposed solution offered by Marcus Borg, Brian McLaren, and Diana Butler Bass is also part of the problem. I have read some books of the first two of that trio, and from reading what Bass says in the article, it is clear that she fits right in with Borg and McLaren. They want the church and theology to change, to be transformative, to be fundamentally shifted. What they miss is the Biblical, orthodox, and evangelical gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ. Their theology has been around for 2,000 years, denying the heart of the gospel. Their proposal is no answer to the receding mainline church. Their answer is a dead end.
John M. Noah, H.R.
Spokane, Wash. |
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by John Ragsdale
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Wednesday, 08 April 2009 20:51 |
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Thank you (Eric Mount Jr.) for your excellent rethinking of the role of sacraments in our life. |
Unfortunately the emphasis on Eileen Lindner's interesting statistics missed the real thrust of her message. They were given only to give a picture of where we are and not an excuse for staying there. Following the APCE theme "A Light to the Nations," she challenged us a church, as educators to remember that we are not the source of the Light. Jesus Christ is the Light and we are called to be stewards of that Light. We were reminded that to be a Covenant people means to enlist to be servants of the living God. As Christian Educators we were challenged to carry that Light into the world for that Light was given to all people. As the advocate she is, she raised the issues of injustice in the world and people given to despair. I left the conference not with trying to justify our decreasing membership but challenged to be a Light bearer. I believe this is missional.
Connie Nyquist
Certified Christian Educator
Houston, Texas
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Re: Wheeler, Loudon (Dec. 8/15, 2008), Capetz, Edwards (Jan. 26/Feb. 2, 2009), Quotable quote (Feb. 16, 2009), and Barron series (Nov. 10, 17, 24, 2008)
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by The Presbyterian Outlook
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Wednesday, 01 April 2009 20:51 |
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Presbyterian missionaries to Iran began language study with the Gospel of John so those long-ago-chronicled verses come naturally to mind. |
Comment:
I have read with interest the several articles published recently about immigration problems in the United States. They are lamenting the raids carried out by the immigration and Customs Enforcement arm of the government and anguishing over the breakup of families and the cloud of uncertainty over those who do not have the proper papers.
I agree that it is definitely a problem, but wonder why the basic reason for this anguish seems to be pushed to the background or not mentioned at all. Those people came to the United States illegally. They came without the proper papers. They consciously made that decision — to break our laws. … I sympathize with them because it means their families are broken up, but still, they were taking a chance by entering the country illegally and if the authorities finally catch them, then their attempt didn’t work and they must pay for their crime. Allowing people who have broken the law to get off without any consequence only encourages more to try and makes a mockery of our laws. …
Of course, the answer to the problem is some sort of guest worker program, where we can keep track of who’s here and offer them services accordingly. …
Yes, the Bible instructs us to care for the alien in our land, but the aliens in the Bible were not “undocumented,” only discriminated against, … Now, all countries of the world have particular laws about who, why, and when a person can enter and stay in their land and all people need to abide by them. … Help them with food and moral support, but if they don’t have proper papers, then they should have to abide by our laws, which unfortunately for them means deportation and broken families. It was their choice. … |
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by Derek Maul
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Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:48 |
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OK, so only 75% of Americans describe themselves as "Christian" nowadays. |
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by Jack Moriarty, pastor
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Tuesday, 31 March 2009 18:41 |
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Robert Trawick … is on target. If Scripture is read as if frozen in time, it is indeed a dead letter. |
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Letters to the Editor
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Written by James N. Murray, H.R.
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Monday, 30 March 2009 18:32 |
It is very important to have an educated Ministry, but then we have our candidates “spend too much time jumping through hoops … .”
Then she questions whether our candidates can measure up to the CLP’s ability to empathize, care, and speak to the congregations to which they are called.
How can we train our candidates to CARE? This is the basic question, because part of a pastor’s call is to become a shepherd. A shepherd must be able to care, empathize, and speak to the sheep.
This is not something that can be legislated, nor spelled out in our FOG. I think this issue is very crucial if the PC(USA) is to continue as part of the Church Universal!
Thank you, Evelyn, for bringing this to the church’s attention!
James N. Murray, H.R.
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