The basic problem with this lively conversation is that it looks through the lens of 'denomination' I know that in this part of the world independent churches ranging from megachurches to smaller ones are on the rise.  By contrast our Presbytery loses 1,000 members per year. It appears that churches which are growing in Hong Kong and Malawi where our congregation is focussed are forward thinking and outward looking. I have no doubt that Mr Douthat has hit a raw nerve in the progressive community and I perceive some denial on the part of Diana Butler Bass. For my part there is no doubt that our Christian friends in Africa and elsewhere have a joy which I don't see in the average Presbytery meeting  and they just happen to be both traditional and conservative

James Skimins

Plymouth,Michigan