Comments for So what about the Muslims? at http://www.pres-outlook.org , comment 1 to 3 out of 3 comments http://www.pres-outlook.org Wed, 08 Feb 2012 06:51:00 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.pres-outlook.org/opinion3/editorials3/9598-so-what-about-the-muslims.html#comment-5332 Re: Allah and God (Originally sent Feb. 26) Dear Mr. Haberer: The most recent story on “Allah” on page 8 of the March 8, 2010 Outlook, “Malaysia Christians flock to worship amid attacks on churches” follows your article on the web, “Christians, Jews, Muslims, Together?” written by you on February 23. I searched the Letters to the Editor to see if anyone was commenting on this idea that God and Allah are the same and I found nothing except Jim White’s response to your January 24 article, “So What About the Muslims?” You may have more responses, but I do not have time to read the 3,000 responses to the Outlook or the 342 mentions of Muslim on your website. What I have taken time to read over the years is a long list of books about Islam and terrorism that results from deeply committed and deep reading by Muslims of their religious books. By the time a Muslim is able to understand Islam, they are committed to acting like Mohammed asked them to act, by telling others to become a Muslim, pay homage as a slave to Muslims, or be killed. See the list attached for some of the books that help explain the previous sentence. [This list was attached to the direct Email letter.] You may have a superficial view of Muslim fanaticism if you stand by your statement in the January 24 article saying, “Yet daily prayers and whole Quran memorization are the rule, not the exception, among Muslims.” By the time any Muslim memorizes the whole Quran they are set aside as a special Imam entitle to guide, lead, pronounce fatwas and otherwise control other Muslims. I doubt if you can find 7 Muslims in the USA who have memorized the whole Quran and who would be willing to prove the feat to anyone. I do not think it is the rule, but a rare exception and I doubt if anyone can repeat the Quran from beginning to end. But the beginning and end of the Quran is another problem as scholars, including Muslims, disagree on the order of the verses in the Quran, so the doctrine of abrogation is not always applied correctly by the Imams. And it is pointless for me to argue with a Muslim if I do not read and understand the language of the Quran as that is the only kind of expert they will enter into a discussion with about the meaning of the Quran. In your February 23rd article you state, “Both Christians and Muslims believe in one God, known to both as Allah, the Aramaic word for God, but Christians’ belief in the trinity is rejected by Muslims.” This is a pretty definite theological statement that I have never seen in writing before in Outlook. The Muslims have repeatedly confirmed that “God has no son.” This is even written on the Temple Mount in Jerusalem. The Muslims say that Mohammed supersedes Jesus. The real Messiah, according to the Shi’ite Muslims is the 12th Imam now hidden in a water well somewhere in the desert. The bottom line for me is that Allah is not the God I worship. There is no similarity between Islam’s “submission” and my God’s “love.” Like Elias Boudinot, who refuted Thomas Paine’s The Age of Reason with his own book, The Age of Revelation, I wish that real religious scholars were responding and refuting beliefs issues like the sameness of Allah and God, but they are not, so I must state what I believe. Hopefully the General Assembly study will provide some help in understanding what the real answers are and not mislead Presbyterians into letting down their guard. For over 1300 years the fanatics among well-read religious Muslims have been urging submission to Islam. When others fail to listen and respond, they resort to terrorism. Recent events in the world show that they are still able to press their cause. I hope Christians and Jews will continue to press their causes as well or better than the Muslims. Until I learn differently, Allah deserves no respect from Christians. I will still try to befriend them and already have, learn from them and already have, proclaim to them and already have, and love them and already have, but I will be careful. Finally, I recommend you read an article titled, "The Purpose Driven Strife" in the March 2010 issue, page 40, of The Catholic World Report for another view of Islam that is similar to mine. - Bill Skinner Thu, 11 Mar 2010 07:44:57 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/opinion3/editorials3/9598-so-what-about-the-muslims.html#comment-5321 Is there any place for a real study or serious commentary about Islam? Because one has met some "good Muslims" does not really qualify one to be an authority on the history and content of the religion. To pretend that Islam is just another form of a good religion, like ours, in another book cover is not only stupid, it is dangerous. Until one has read the Quran and knows something about the haddiths; has studied the history of Islam and read authorities like Bernard Lewis, Serge Trifkovic, Bat Y'oer, Samuel Huntington, or Ibn Warraq; and understands something of the struggle that is going on in the world today, there is zero authority in their opinions. So far I have seen little evidence of anyone writing in the Outlook having read the materials. So, here is a brief commentary about Islam. Islam is a religion of war. It always has been. From the Jewish tribe of Banu Nadir in Medina, the burning of the great library of Alexandria, the genocide of the Christian Armenians in Turkey, to 9-11 — and all of the other deadly tribal wars that are current today — the religion of Muhammad is the religion of death. Christianity is the religion of life. Our inability to say that clearly shames us. … (Islam is a) religion that conquered by the sword, divided the booty, and oppressed anyone or group that did not accept his (Muhammad’s) understanding of Allah. Our ignorance of this truth or unwillingness to say the truth shames us. …  The West is being invaded by Muslims who have no appreciation of women's equality, democracy, representative government, or freedom. Unless the West takes swift action our world will look very different for our grandchildren and their children. Yes, peaceful Muslims in America are not rare but they rarely count in the scheme of history. No one believed Hitler when he wrote Mein Kampf either. Few are reading the material today. Robert Covington   Kingwood, Texas   - Robert Covington Tue, 09 Mar 2010 06:48:16 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/opinion3/editorials3/9598-so-what-about-the-muslims.html#comment-5158 As a long-time subscriber to The Presbyterian Outlook, I commend you for your editorial on "So what about the Muslims?" I think you have joined the tradition of Aubrey Brown and George Laird Hunt in terms of giving leadership to the Presbyterian Church in how to deal with those who differ from us. My experience with numerous Muslims over 37 years of ministry, particularly in Jackson, Miss., leads me to agree with you completely. The Muslims I have known have been horrified at the terrorist activities. In Jackson, almost immediately after 9/11 the imam and the rabbi issued a joint statement condemning the attacks and calling for understanding between religious groups. Unfortunately, too many religious leaders have tried to exploit the differences for their own gain. In addition, I appreciate the coverage you have given to Mark Achtemeier's journey. I suspect many of us who have served congregations have had similar experiences and come to similar conclusions based on our study of Scripture and our experiences with gay Christians, not to mention the witness of remarkable elders and lay leaders. Many of us have not had the courage Mark has shown to make our views as public as he has. I have no desire to enter into a public debate on this issue with my brothers and sisters for I feel there are others far more qualified. I write merely to thank you for giving Mark's journey a good hearing. Keep up the good work. Jim White, H.R. Oak Island, N.C. - Jim White Tue, 26 Jan 2010 10:10:46 +0100