Comments for Watching our Ps & Rs at http://www.pres-outlook.org , comment 1 to 3 out of 3 comments http://www.pres-outlook.org Wed, 08 Feb 2012 07:18:12 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.pres-outlook.org/opinion3/editorials3/9328-watching-our-ps-a-rs.html#comment-4939 Outstanding editorial on the heart of the matter - stewardship and our life with one another. Your second paragraph, Jack, is nothing short of brilliant, capturing the heart and soul of stewardship. Far too many American Christians are under the influence of the work/ownership/deserve syndrome with regard to things and less guided by the biblical perspective that all is of God, and all that I have is given under the rubrics of stewardship. Frankly, you give way to much on the issue of corruption and sin. Yes, I know, there are folks who can't see the forest for the trees, and, yes, for them, as they see it, the whole church has been misguided if not evil, and, yes, we haven't always done it right, but in my 39 years of ordination, I've found my colleagues to be dedicated to the Lord, seriously mindful of the Bible and sensitive to how we Reformed have read the Bible and served the world. Your point about "be the first to cast a stone" is spot on - we have lived through 30 years worth of casting stones at one another - yes, we've all done it, and what has it gotten us, but a lot of broken bones and a ton of anger and sadness. Stewardship has nothing to do with likes and dislikes, but rather a commitment to Christ and to his Church, warts and all. This is what love and grace are all about. But it's also a terrific affirmation of the church - our faithfulness over the years to this earth, to justice, to the poor, is a worthy record. As the world turns, as the evangelical churches begin a major shift in thinking occasioned by a new emphasis on justice, as they move beyond the comfort zone of the two c's, charity and conversion into the realm of systemic change, all of us will have a lot more to talk about, and even more to do. You have helped the church talk turkey and to think theologically about our money ..."as if we really are P&R believers in a P&R church." - Tom Eggebeen Sat, 24 Oct 2009 08:31:13 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/opinion3/editorials3/9328-watching-our-ps-a-rs.html#comment-4937 A religious denomination is in many way a voluntary-affinity organization. Much like the Loyal order of Moose,the Elks, and the Friday night bowling league, people choose to associate and relate to one other based upon a broadly defined set of rules, regulations, and general agreement over core principles of the organization. A shared "confession" if one wills. When those conditions no longer exist people tend to walk, drop-out, and move along. And usually take their money with them. When the glue that binds people together across both geographic and ideological spectrums tends to decay, fracture, or become old the first bone of contention is always money. Who has it, who wants it, and where does it all go. Money equates with power, authority, and over all direction of an organization. In the case of the PCUSA and over-all giving to its various agencies and organs, one must realize that if there is not a "critcal-mass" of mutual agreement over matters of confession, direction, and policy, money-cash flow is the first to be effected. The appeal to ones over-all sense of trust in giving money to a process or organization that quite frankly is not the most transparent or responsive to larger segments of the church is a hard task to fulfill. Or that a condition exists to continue to support a system that may or may not reflect with will and the intent of the donors is a stretch to say the least. For close to 40 years the PCSUA has stressed individual autonomy in faith development, and various identity-based theologies in mission funding and group empowerment. To say now that we all rally round the flag for the sake of a shared sense of identity that may no longer exist is a bit like closing the bard door, when the horse has exited years ago. - P. Gregory Fri, 23 Oct 2009 05:15:26 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/opinion3/editorials3/9328-watching-our-ps-a-rs.html#comment-4932 Sorry, I'm not buying this argument one bit. The fault in this argument is in the discernment: For in those past instances of church failures that are cited, the member churches did not actually discern the sin of their governing bodies in that time. Well, today we do. We see sin for what it is,as the PC(USA) continues wasteful spending on efforts that are often counter to the gospel itself. To know this and then choose to fund it with God's money would be sin for us. As for me and my house, we will not fund errant courts of the church when we discern that God's money entrusted to us can be better spent elsewhere. Here I spend. - Toby Brown Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:23:46 +0100