Comments for Who Will Be the First? at http://www.pres-outlook.org , comment 1 to 9 out of 9 comments http://www.pres-outlook.org Thu, 09 Sep 2010 06:22:05 +0100 FeedCreator 1.7.3 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4830 Doesn't Jack Rogers qualify for the title of "the first"? Wasn't he an evangelical who broke ranks and (tried) to set a new pace for affirmation of homosexuality? And if he doesn't qualify as "the first," who does or would? - P Johnston Tue, 08 Sep 2009 09:10:41 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4820 What about those of us pastors who grew up affirming GLBT ordination (I affirmed GLBT ordination my entire life never once disagreeing with it) and finally came to the conclusion that if we were going to take the Scriptures seriously that we could no longer affirm what we once did. It takes courage when you lose all of your prior support and friends because you take the road of orthodoxy over culture. - Ben Seller Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:06:36 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4814 This blog just continues to get worse and worse. This stuff is just embarrassing to the Outlook. Shut it down before your publication loses what respect it has left! - Toby Brown Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:23:59 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4813 I shouldn't be so surprised this late in our denomination's "dialogue" regarding GLBT issues, but I suppose I will never get accustomed to the typical liberal sentiment of condescending self-righteousness expressed in this writing. It is clear that Mr. Eggebeen hasn't really listened even to one point ever expressed by an evangelical. Either that, or he is just heartily contemptuous of such. - Will Jackson Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:58:49 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4812 There has already been a "first" to leave the fold of orthodoxy. Actually, many "firsts". It seems when token evangelicals engage the discussions surround marriage, family, or some other hot topic of the day, they're always the ones pressured to compromise their positions. The Peace, Unity, and Purity task force is a recent exhibit A. You don't hear of compromise from the other side, do you? Enough with compromise and getting along. It's time to stand for the truth of Apostolic teaching (see especially Paul in Romans and Corinthians). I fear the the PCUSA bureacracy has already lead astray too many. I wonder if the denomination is salvagable in its present state of confusion and compromise with worldly values and beliefs... - Daniel McMillan Wed, 02 Sep 2009 14:18:42 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4811 Thank you Tom Eggebeen for demonstrating once again that we are not speaking the same language. You wonder when the first evangelical will break ranks and speak out against discrimination against GLBT persons. I don’t know where you have been but I have NEVER heard someone promote active discrimination from the pulpit. Let’s leave the burning crosses at home, shall we? You claim that the Biblical work has been done. The only thing I have heard for the past 20 or so years are superficial straw dog arguments that seek to classify homosexual behavior with outmoded Levitical purity codes. At the risk of being blunt, the issue is not about which appendage is inserted into which orifice. The issue derives from whence we derive our core identity. We live in a highly sexualized culture which implicitly states that one cannot have an authentic human experience unless one is sexually active. Our culture pressures young people at ever younger ages to declare their sexual identity. These labels in turn are used to classify and predict human behavior. As if human behavior can ever be classified and predicted! The fact that we have categories of Bisexual and Transgendered is proof enough that the narrative that posits gay or straight orientation is just as arbitrary as the narrative that claimed the sun revolved around the earth. As Reform theologians we affirm that our core identity derives from our relationship to God through Jesus Christ. Any other basis of our core identity falls into the realm of idolatry. That’s why it is commandment #1- it is the easiest to break. If I affirm any other basis for my identity- gender, ethnic background, economic status, political affiliation or whatever, I am an idolater and should not be ordained. Bottom line, there is no Gay, there is no Straight. There’s only us, broken failures who stand in the need of God’s grace. On that basis I will relate to anyone, even if I do not speak their language. I don’t know if the PC(USA) will implode. That is not my primary concern. I’ll make you a deal. If you will desist in attempting to claim moral high ground by painting me with the broad brushstrokes of racism, sexism, etc I’ll buy lunch at a time and place of your own choosing. But until then, could you please back off from the inflammatory language? Paul Masters Pastor, New Horizon Presbyterian Church Council Bluffs, Iowa - Paul Masters Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:40:49 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4810 So, let me get this straight...Evangelicals exclusively lack integrity and have sold out to the god of materialism in our heartless, discriminatory treatment of LGBT folks. Oh, and we don't really understand Scripture, either. Actually, you got one thing right -- "the Biblical work has been done." Gagnon's done it, and I'm sorry you cannot accept it. - Bob Jack Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:25:36 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4809 To call the blog entry "Who Will Be the First?" extemely arrogant would be a profound understatement. I suspect that many of us "evangelicals" who are staying will rather prefer to be defrocked than sell out our Lord. - Cameron Smith Wed, 02 Sep 2009 12:00:30 +0100 http://www.pres-outlook.org/blog/Who-Will-Be-the-First-.html#comment-4808 You got it wrong: hundreds have already "left the pack." They're now in the PCA, EPC, or any of dozens of denominations not pushing the envelope to the secular left. - Noel Anderson Wed, 02 Sep 2009 11:09:38 +0100